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Welcome to something more with Chris Boyd.

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Chris Boyd is a certified financial planner, practitioner,

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and senior vice president, financial advisor at Wealth

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Enhancement Group, one of the nation's largest registered

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investment advisors.

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We call it something more because we'd like

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to talk not only about those important dollar

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and cents issues, but also the quality of

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life issues that make the money matters matter.

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Here he is, your fulfillment facilitator, your partner

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in prosperity, advising clients on Cape Cod and

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across the country.

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Here's your host, Jay Christopher Boyd.

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Welcome everybody to another episode of something more

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with Chris Boyd.

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I'm glad to have you with us.

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We are having a special episode today because

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there's been some significant legislation that was recently

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passed and signed into law, it's called the

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Social Security Fairness Act.

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And we wanted to have an opportunity to

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share some of the implications of this with

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you.

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I'm joined by Jeff Perry and Russ Ball,

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both of whom are part of our AMR

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team here at Wealth Enhancement Group.

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And we appreciate you listening and hope you

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get a lot out of this.

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This is something that, Jeff, you've been tracking

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for months now.

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This is not the first time there's been

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legislative rules.

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Yeah.

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I've been saying for years I've been tracking

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this.

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And with a lot of skepticism along the

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way, will it pass?

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Oh, we're down to the last few days.

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Is it going to make it through?

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And maybe this is the big one you've

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been waiting for, for this repeal.

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Let's tell everyone a little bit about what

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this legislation, the Social Security Fairness Act does,

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and then we can talk a little bit

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about some of the particulars.

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Okay.

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Let's go back in history a little bit.

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In 1983, when Congress passed some Social Security

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form, which increased the retirement age, which was

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the headline of that bill, they included-

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And the tax structure, right?

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Correct.

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And as I said previously, Social Security benefits

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had been untaxed.

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That's right.

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They became taxable income in varying degrees.

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And then there was also the change in

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the age as to full retirement age.

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Increasing it, yeah.

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Yeah.

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But there was also this impact.

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So it was a goal by President Reagan

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and the Congress at that time to strengthen

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the Social Security system, right?

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To make it more- It's solvency.

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That's right.

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So, you know, generally a good idea.

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Well, I'm sure we'll go back to this

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subject in a minute.

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And they included a windfall elimination provision in

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that bill, which basically was designed to prevent

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or mitigate individuals who had a government pension,

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civil servants, state and local employees who were

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not paying into Social Security, but to decrease

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the amount of their Social Security if they

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had earned the necessary credits otherwise.

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So they were eligible for Social Security in

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the process, but were they perceived to be

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double dipping in a sense, you know, getting

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benefit from their Social Security benefits and public

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pension?

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That's right.

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That's right.

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And it, just a side note, in 1977,

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there was a provision called the government.

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Why can't I remember the name of this?

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Government pension offset.

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I forget it earlier.

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Which has to do with spousal benefits, how

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much they could receive.

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So that was already on the books.

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Similar idea that as we know, a long

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time ago when Social Security was created or

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revised, they wanted to incentivize in that time

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mothers to stay home.

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Right.

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And be able to be penalized for not

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working essentially.

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I could argue either side, right.

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Incentivized to stay home or penalized for not

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working.

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And they were able to collect 50%

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of their spouse's Social Security benefits.

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In the creation of the Social Security, you

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know, at its origins, there were just a

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lot more people who, women who were, you

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know, stay at home moms who weren't part

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of the workforce that also needed some consideration

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in retirement.

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The goal of Social Security was to provide

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an element of Social Security, a retirement stability

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for people that they wouldn't be on welfare

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in retirement.

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So this was like a base income.

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So this was, it was part of the

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rationale based on the social structure at that

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time.

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That's right.

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That's a well said Chris.

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And also as part of that GPO, there's

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surviving spouse benefits.

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So if the spouse died, that 50%

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would go up to a hundred percent.

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However, when the windfall elimination provision was enacted,

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they also included the individuals, the spouses or

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the surviving spouses into that where that benefit,

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if that was, if they had a private,

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if they had a government pension in that

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mix as well, then that Social Security benefit,

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either one, either spouses or a survivor could

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be eliminated as well.

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So both of these have been on the

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books for a very long time.

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And it doesn't necessarily work identically.

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The government offset and the windfall elimination provision,

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but the conceptually, so since we don't have

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to go into the details on this anymore,

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the conceptually both would discount the Social Security

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benefit in differing ways, in different degrees, but

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for people who either as a surviving spouse

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benefited from that public pension while receiving Social

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Security benefits or for the worker, depending on

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which part of this we're talking about.

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And we won't get into the details, but

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I just want to add some commentary is

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it seemed like the most harshest treatment was

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to the surviving spouse, which, you know, why

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probably unintentional, right?

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But still, yeah, it's, it's kind of surprising.

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The big hit came to the surviving spouse

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twice, right?

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They lose somebody and then what they expect

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to get as a survivor benefit.

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Got reduced substantially.

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Their, their Social Security spousal benefit perhaps, and

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was reduced because of this pension that they

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got the percentage of certainly was right.

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So since then, right.

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So since 1983, this has been an issue

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and it was an issue for some state

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and local employees whose states decided not to

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opt into the Social Security system.

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Massachusetts was one of them.

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Not all state and local governments made that

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decision back then.

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Some said, okay, well, this is the way

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it's going to be.

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We're going to opt into Social Security and

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government employees were paying both.

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And so that did not affect them.

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Just the ones that those states said, no,

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we're just going to stay with our pension

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system and we understand Social Security would be

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reduced.

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So, so it's kind of not a one,

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one size fits all.

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Yeah.

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It's important to recognize that there are many

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other jurisdictions where the public, they may even

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have a, a public pension in the state,

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but they may also be participating in the

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Social Security system.

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So it's, it's a, which would make it

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more like a private pension in many respects

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in that scenario.

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In our case in Massachusetts, other jurisdictions that

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not all, but many there is this separate,

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you don't participate in Social Security, but you're

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participating in the public pension paying nine to

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12% of your salary into the public

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pension system.

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Not unlike what you would do in the

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Social Security.

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And if you were doing FICA taxes or

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something like that.

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So it's a slightly different, but parallel perhaps.

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And so now this is most relevant for

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people who qualify for both, right?

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This is where it's like, what happened when

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you had your 40 quarters of, of eligibility

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for Social Security benefits, you, you participated sufficiently

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to receive Social Security.

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But you also had the benefit of working

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in the public sector where you got a

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public pension, where you'd get some benefit there

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as in retirement.

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The challenge for this, this windfall elimination provision

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would, would limit how much your Social Security

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benefit would, it would be deducted.

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It'd be reduced essentially.

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So under the old formula, just to, I

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know nobody needs to know it, but just

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a point of reference.

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If you had your quarters, your 40 quarters,

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and you had less than 18 years of

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substantial earnings, you would get the maximum reduction

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to your Social Security, which was changed every

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year, but around $550 in the latest year,

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that would be the maximum windfall elimination provision.

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If you had between 18 and 30 quarters,

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18 and 30 years of substantial earnings, your

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reduction would be on a sliding scale.

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The closer you get to 30, the less

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percentage of the reduction.

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And if you hit 30 years of Social

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Security contributions at substantial earnings, which really weren't

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that hard to meet substantial earnings, you would

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not have any reduction.

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So people, there's no one, once again, no,

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there's no single answer for everybody.

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It really depended on where you were.

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I'll just share with, I've shared it before.

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I'm one of those people.

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I had like 18 years of private sector

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employment and 26 years of public sector employment.

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So I am eligible for a pension in

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the pension system in Massachusetts, and I'm not

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collecting Social Security, but when I was going

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to collect Social Security, I was probably going

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to lose four or $500, you know, roughly

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a month because of where I was in

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the number of years I had in the

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private sector.

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Well, and you mentioned having talked with another,

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a client of ours, who's benefiting, going to

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see maybe about a $500 difference in their

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retirement income as a consequence of that.

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I had a meeting this morning with, with

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someone who works for a city in Massachusetts,

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and he hadn't heard about this yet, but

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he was very happy to hear about it,

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the argument to repeal these provisions was fairness,

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you know, the title of the bill in

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essence, that if you, for example, if you

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worked in two different pension jobs, private sector,

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say you worked in two companies that had

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pensions and you worked X number of years

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in each ones, you qualified for both pensions.

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One pension wasn't reduced because you had another

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pension.

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It was a matter of fairness.

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I worked my case 18 years in the

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private sector.

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I contributed.

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I don't have, I have a very low

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Social Security benefit because I only worked 18

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years in, and so I shouldn't be reduced

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or someone shouldn't be reduced because I chose

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to work in the public sector as well.

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That was the political argument.

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Yeah.

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I mean, in that scenario, you're saying one

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00:11:42,260 --> 00:11:45,420
pension isn't affected by the other, but in

274
00:11:45,420 --> 00:11:47,880
both of those instances, those pensions were also

275
00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:51,620
paying into the Social Security system, which, uh,

276
00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,140
you know, it's apples and oranges for your

277
00:11:55,140 --> 00:11:58,580
analogy here, but you follow my point that

278
00:11:58,580 --> 00:12:01,200
people were still participating in Social Security all

279
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:01,860
along the way.

280
00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,560
Um, and that, that those, those pensions are

281
00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:10,720
irrelevant to the Social Security conversation.

282
00:12:11,380 --> 00:12:13,480
As a matter of fairness, it's a solid

283
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,920
argument that they are irrelevant to each other,

284
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:16,200
right?

285
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,540
Now there's other issues that are always involved

286
00:12:19,540 --> 00:12:22,420
with these, these decisions that Congress had to

287
00:12:22,420 --> 00:12:24,140
make, but I think, I think it passed

288
00:12:24,140 --> 00:12:27,180
because it's a compelling argument because a lot

289
00:12:27,180 --> 00:12:29,540
of other reasons, political reasons, I think it

290
00:12:29,540 --> 00:12:29,880
passed.

291
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,940
There's, you know, roughly 3 million people who

292
00:12:32,940 --> 00:12:35,780
are affected by this repeal who will benefit

293
00:12:35,780 --> 00:12:36,820
from this repeal.

294
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,060
Arguably there are 3 million government employees.

295
00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,140
So in that 3 million, there's a lot

296
00:12:43,140 --> 00:12:47,560
of individuals who are connected to members of

297
00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:50,660
Congress, connected to the political system just by

298
00:12:50,660 --> 00:12:55,020
being in the government And so there's some,

299
00:12:55,020 --> 00:12:57,460
uh, lobbying, right?

300
00:12:57,860 --> 00:13:01,340
There's some lobbying, all the, uh, retirement associations

301
00:13:01,340 --> 00:13:04,040
in the given states were pushing for it

302
00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:04,760
for decades.

303
00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:05,840
It was a lot of momentum.

304
00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:08,540
In fact, there were more sponsors in the

305
00:13:08,540 --> 00:13:11,740
House and the Senate of, of the bill.

306
00:13:11,900 --> 00:13:13,860
This was HR 42, the name of the

307
00:13:13,860 --> 00:13:16,720
bill, but there were more sponsors every session

308
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,200
than they were required to pass it.

309
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,820
I mean, because the constituents who were affected

310
00:13:22,820 --> 00:13:25,820
by this were knocking on those legislators' doors,

311
00:13:26,420 --> 00:13:29,380
talking to members of Congress all the time.

312
00:13:29,500 --> 00:13:31,300
So the support was always there.

313
00:13:31,420 --> 00:13:36,120
The argument wasn't, the argument was never that

314
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:37,900
this is, this is fair.

315
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,480
This is just, Congress would never make that

316
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:41,380
argument publicly.

317
00:13:42,420 --> 00:13:44,340
Um, the argument was it costs too much

318
00:13:44,340 --> 00:13:45,020
money, right?

319
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,140
We'd like to do it, but it's too

320
00:13:47,140 --> 00:13:47,620
expensive.

321
00:13:47,620 --> 00:13:51,600
The Congressional Budget Office puts a price tag,

322
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:56,620
um, from this repeal at $195 billion over

323
00:13:56,620 --> 00:13:57,680
a 10 year period.

324
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:02,200
Um, and what's, uh, interesting that, uh, of

325
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,640
the 51 million retired workers who receive social

326
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:06,160
security.

327
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,980
Uh, probably about 3 million are the number

328
00:14:09,980 --> 00:14:12,720
that's, that's less than 6% are affected

329
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,640
by, uh, this, the impact of this.

330
00:14:16,170 --> 00:14:17,780
Well, you know, I, as I, you know,

331
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:18,980
I was alluding to it.

332
00:14:19,020 --> 00:14:21,320
I have seen articles about, Oh, is the

333
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,280
fairness, the social security fairness act fair?

334
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,320
You know, I, I think, you know, you've

335
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:27,820
made the case for why it is.

336
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,760
Um, I think the, um, the bigger, you

337
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,180
know, challenge it affects is how does it

338
00:14:34,180 --> 00:14:36,880
affect the solvency of the social security system

339
00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,400
overall, you know, as you say, this is,

340
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,500
it has a cost, um, of, uh, you

341
00:14:42,500 --> 00:14:46,960
know, a hundred, nine, 10 billion over 10

342
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:47,280
years.

343
00:14:47,500 --> 00:14:48,060
Okay.

344
00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:50,920
Roughly 200 billion.

345
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:51,820
Okay.

346
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:52,660
200 billion.

347
00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,880
So, um, you know, that's, that's, uh, over

348
00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,200
a fair amount of time, but we are

349
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,020
also in within that timeframe, you know, 2033,

350
00:15:02,020 --> 00:15:06,140
we have the issue of, um, challenge of

351
00:15:06,140 --> 00:15:09,460
whether social security benefits will be sufficient, uh,

352
00:15:09,460 --> 00:15:11,380
based on who we're taxing at that time

353
00:15:11,380 --> 00:15:14,300
to pay benefits, there's the expectation we'll be

354
00:15:14,300 --> 00:15:16,760
in a position where, uh, we'll be facing

355
00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,060
a 21%, uh, or somewhere thereabouts a reduction

356
00:15:20,060 --> 00:15:24,940
in benefits, uh, because unless this is addressed

357
00:15:24,940 --> 00:15:28,580
the, the, from 2033 or whatever the number

358
00:15:28,580 --> 00:15:31,700
was, uh, the CBO, I think, uh, also

359
00:15:31,700 --> 00:15:34,700
indicated this might move that clock up.

360
00:15:34,700 --> 00:15:35,740
Uh, what was it?

361
00:15:35,780 --> 00:15:36,900
Russ six months.

362
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:37,220
Yeah.

363
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:37,780
Six months.

364
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,660
And so, um, it does have some consequence

365
00:15:41,660 --> 00:15:44,660
to, you know, all of us who, um,

366
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,160
maybe at, by, I don't know if I'll

367
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:48,380
be participating at that point.

368
00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,000
I, I haven't done the math.

369
00:15:50,060 --> 00:15:50,900
How old will I be then?

370
00:15:51,140 --> 00:15:54,520
But, uh, you know, that notion of, uh,

371
00:15:54,540 --> 00:15:56,180
the people who are affected by social security

372
00:15:56,180 --> 00:15:56,640
benefits.

373
00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,400
The big issue is we've got to deal

374
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,880
with this and the longer the runway to

375
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,280
start a better will be.

376
00:16:05,140 --> 00:16:07,840
Uh, but you know, the likelihood is, is

377
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,220
we'll get down to the wire, you know,

378
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,120
over the last several years, Jeff, I've been

379
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,540
saying to clients when they ask about this,

380
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,540
uh, this notion of social security, will it

381
00:16:18,540 --> 00:16:20,960
be, you know, will it pay out, will

382
00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,220
we receive benefits as planned?

383
00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:25,840
I've always said, well, you know, I think,

384
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:27,760
um, there's a lot of people in Congress

385
00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:29,620
who like their jobs, you know, and there's

386
00:16:29,620 --> 00:16:32,320
a lot of voters who are affected by

387
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:33,000
social security.

388
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,460
Um, but you know, I'm starting to wonder

389
00:16:36,460 --> 00:16:39,660
about the, uh, the plausibility of, you know,

390
00:16:39,660 --> 00:16:42,540
when you look at the fact that, um,

391
00:16:42,860 --> 00:16:45,680
we have these growing debts, um, you know,

392
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,440
uh, what are we almost $2 trillion deficit

393
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:50,760
last year?

394
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:52,780
Um, was it 1.9?

395
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:54,440
I think, uh, something like that.

396
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,620
Um, that's the deficit in the annual budget

397
00:16:57,620 --> 00:17:00,840
and then the debt that's growing and growing

398
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,619
and growing, um, with then you compound that

399
00:17:04,619 --> 00:17:06,900
with the fact that we'd have the social

400
00:17:06,900 --> 00:17:10,599
security issue, uh, in need of addressing, you

401
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:12,960
know, you could, it's not, uh, unthinkable.

402
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:14,599
We could be in a position where, you

403
00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:16,099
know, we always worry about, Oh, where's that

404
00:17:16,099 --> 00:17:18,500
tipping point, the debt.

405
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:23,700
And, um, uh, the notion that it's partly

406
00:17:23,700 --> 00:17:25,920
funded by other people around the world, by

407
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,260
the confidence they have in the debt paying

408
00:17:29,260 --> 00:17:31,240
ability on treasuries.

409
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,680
And, you know, we're, we're up coming this

410
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,480
year with the likelihood of a showdown regarding

411
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:38,380
the debt ceiling.

412
00:17:38,980 --> 00:17:42,120
And, uh, this is something that could undermine

413
00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:47,140
confidence in people's willingness to own us debt,

414
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,180
if there's not clarity that we're going to

415
00:17:49,180 --> 00:17:49,920
pay our debts.

416
00:17:50,460 --> 00:17:52,980
So, you know, this becomes a political football,

417
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,100
uh, certainly.

418
00:17:54,100 --> 00:17:57,920
And so, um, you know, I guess I,

419
00:17:58,060 --> 00:18:01,140
I've always had the mindset, Congress is going

420
00:18:01,140 --> 00:18:03,900
to deal with it, but you, you could

421
00:18:03,900 --> 00:18:05,940
get to a point where the question is,

422
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:10,720
uh, is there still confidence from investors around

423
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:12,420
the world in us debt?

424
00:18:12,860 --> 00:18:16,540
Does that undermine the ability, the cost of

425
00:18:16,540 --> 00:18:18,640
financing our debts?

426
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,640
Could that envision a period of greater austerity?

427
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,240
Like we saw in Europe in the last

428
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:30,380
decade, uh, where we might not be as

429
00:18:30,380 --> 00:18:33,660
free to simply say, Hey, let's just address

430
00:18:33,660 --> 00:18:37,800
this, um, in, in a way that seems

431
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,340
very attainable and manageable today.

432
00:18:48,290 --> 00:18:51,950
And in, uh, 30, 20, 33 is eight

433
00:18:51,950 --> 00:18:52,810
years from now.

434
00:18:53,130 --> 00:18:53,730
Right.

435
00:18:54,430 --> 00:18:55,390
I don't know.

436
00:18:55,490 --> 00:18:57,330
Uh, I'll just throw that out there.

437
00:18:57,450 --> 00:18:58,950
Uh, what, what are your thoughts?

438
00:18:59,670 --> 00:19:02,450
I actually thought that this issue of the

439
00:19:02,450 --> 00:19:06,070
social security fairness and their repeal of weapon

440
00:19:06,070 --> 00:19:07,950
GPO is going to be handled in a

441
00:19:07,950 --> 00:19:12,870
larger social security reform act, where, you know,

442
00:19:12,890 --> 00:19:14,910
they take all the, this is just one

443
00:19:14,910 --> 00:19:16,410
thing that people say is wrong with social

444
00:19:16,410 --> 00:19:16,810
security.

445
00:19:16,970 --> 00:19:18,850
I mean, we could have, I'm sure we

446
00:19:18,850 --> 00:19:19,050
will.

447
00:19:19,090 --> 00:19:21,970
We'll have a whole episode on what, on

448
00:19:21,970 --> 00:19:23,970
what we think should be done to solve

449
00:19:23,970 --> 00:19:26,110
the financial challenges.

450
00:19:26,470 --> 00:19:26,810
That's right.

451
00:19:26,810 --> 00:19:30,110
Or taxes, uh, later ages, all these kinds

452
00:19:30,110 --> 00:19:30,630
of variables.

453
00:19:32,190 --> 00:19:36,690
Um, they talk about, um, income, uh, I

454
00:19:36,690 --> 00:19:37,950
can't think of the right term for it

455
00:19:37,950 --> 00:19:40,070
where if you make so much, Oh, you

456
00:19:40,070 --> 00:19:42,450
might not be eligible, you know, it means

457
00:19:42,450 --> 00:19:44,130
testing is one of those things.

458
00:19:44,350 --> 00:19:46,350
And it's all these different, it's the cap

459
00:19:46,350 --> 00:19:47,370
on social security.

460
00:19:47,450 --> 00:19:49,810
It's like a tax, uh, where they, why

461
00:19:49,810 --> 00:19:50,610
is there a cap?

462
00:19:50,730 --> 00:19:52,570
Maybe they don't, or maybe there's a donut

463
00:19:52,570 --> 00:19:53,190
hole or something.

464
00:19:53,230 --> 00:19:54,170
There's all these different things.

465
00:19:54,170 --> 00:19:54,430
Right.

466
00:19:54,570 --> 00:19:54,850
Right.

467
00:19:55,190 --> 00:19:55,450
Right.

468
00:19:55,450 --> 00:19:59,450
So there's, I, I really sincerely thought if

469
00:19:59,450 --> 00:20:00,910
I was a betting person, I would have

470
00:20:00,910 --> 00:20:02,790
bet that this would be handled someday.

471
00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:03,750
Yeah.

472
00:20:03,810 --> 00:20:04,910
I don't know what would have happened.

473
00:20:05,130 --> 00:20:06,470
You know, I didn't have really a feeling

474
00:20:06,470 --> 00:20:07,010
about it.

475
00:20:07,090 --> 00:20:08,110
Uh, this was a surprise.

476
00:20:08,110 --> 00:20:10,070
If you read the, if you read the

477
00:20:10,070 --> 00:20:13,410
commentary from the various retiree and employee association

478
00:20:13,410 --> 00:20:14,090
groups.

479
00:20:14,210 --> 00:20:14,610
Yeah.

480
00:20:14,930 --> 00:20:16,750
Kind of snuck up on everyone from the

481
00:20:16,750 --> 00:20:17,690
Massachusetts folks.

482
00:20:17,950 --> 00:20:20,730
Um, they acknowledged that they've been working on

483
00:20:20,730 --> 00:20:23,090
this for 30 years and same thing happened

484
00:20:23,090 --> 00:20:24,570
in Congress, you know, it gets through committee

485
00:20:24,570 --> 00:20:25,030
and everything.

486
00:20:25,030 --> 00:20:26,590
And it doesn't go anywhere.

487
00:20:26,890 --> 00:20:28,990
Uh, they had knowledge that they were surprised

488
00:20:28,990 --> 00:20:31,550
and they didn't really feel confident that it

489
00:20:31,550 --> 00:20:34,930
was going to happen until actually president Biden

490
00:20:34,930 --> 00:20:36,070
signed it.

491
00:20:36,230 --> 00:20:38,050
I talked to, um, I mean, I'm off

492
00:20:38,050 --> 00:20:39,710
topic a little bit, but I talked with

493
00:20:39,710 --> 00:20:41,730
someone who's a congressional staffer, who's an old

494
00:20:41,730 --> 00:20:44,090
friend of mine, uh, he works in the

495
00:20:44,090 --> 00:20:48,830
house and he's not sure, obviously, you know,

496
00:20:48,830 --> 00:20:49,870
he's not going to give me like.

497
00:20:50,150 --> 00:20:53,230
This is exactly what happened, but sometimes one

498
00:20:53,230 --> 00:20:55,470
branch of government passes something to get the,

499
00:20:55,490 --> 00:20:57,170
uh, pressure off their back.

500
00:20:57,490 --> 00:20:57,890
Yeah.

501
00:20:57,970 --> 00:20:59,390
If you, if you remember how it went,

502
00:20:59,550 --> 00:21:00,990
uh, the house passed it.

503
00:21:01,170 --> 00:21:04,330
And then Schumer, uh, who was, who is

504
00:21:04,330 --> 00:21:05,970
the leader of the Senate for the Democrats,

505
00:21:05,970 --> 00:21:10,730
um, was approached, if you will, cornered perhaps

506
00:21:10,730 --> 00:21:13,730
at a union event and said, you know,

507
00:21:13,730 --> 00:21:14,470
the house passed it.

508
00:21:14,490 --> 00:21:15,670
Why don't you, why don't you?

509
00:21:15,690 --> 00:21:19,530
And he, whether intentionally or because of where

510
00:21:19,530 --> 00:21:21,110
he was said, we're going to get it

511
00:21:21,110 --> 00:21:21,330
out.

512
00:21:21,330 --> 00:21:24,490
And then the momentum started and the, you

513
00:21:24,490 --> 00:21:26,170
know, the hundreds of thousands of phone calls

514
00:21:26,170 --> 00:21:27,150
started to Congress.

515
00:21:27,390 --> 00:21:29,530
And so this could be, this could just

516
00:21:29,530 --> 00:21:31,090
be one of those things that just happened

517
00:21:31,090 --> 00:21:34,170
because of political pressure at the time and

518
00:21:34,170 --> 00:21:35,190
political maneuvering.

519
00:21:35,750 --> 00:21:35,870
Yeah.

520
00:21:36,110 --> 00:21:37,690
Um, it's kind of amazing.

521
00:21:37,690 --> 00:21:38,330
Uh, yeah.

522
00:21:38,330 --> 00:21:41,230
As it kind of crept up unexpectedly, Jeff,

523
00:21:41,450 --> 00:21:43,630
um, tell everyone a little bit about, um,

524
00:21:43,710 --> 00:21:46,130
how, how quickly people will start to feel

525
00:21:46,130 --> 00:21:46,910
the impact of this.

526
00:21:47,110 --> 00:21:48,490
When will benefits change?

527
00:21:48,930 --> 00:21:50,830
Uh, when will people, when does it take

528
00:21:50,830 --> 00:21:52,330
effect in essence?

529
00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:52,850
Sure.

530
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:56,570
It takes effect January 1st, 2025.

531
00:21:56,710 --> 00:22:00,510
So last week, um, and it is provided

532
00:22:00,510 --> 00:22:01,470
to be retroactive.

533
00:22:01,770 --> 00:22:04,430
So, you know, it's going to take, yeah,

534
00:22:04,510 --> 00:22:06,610
it's going to take social security administration, some

535
00:22:06,610 --> 00:22:09,570
time to figure out how they're going to

536
00:22:09,570 --> 00:22:09,970
do this.

537
00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:11,650
Um, I would think they'd have all the

538
00:22:11,650 --> 00:22:15,150
data because they have calculated the, the offsets.

539
00:22:15,250 --> 00:22:15,490
Right.

540
00:22:15,490 --> 00:22:19,550
So, um, but, so this goes back to

541
00:22:19,550 --> 00:22:23,350
December of 2023 or is it January of

542
00:22:23,350 --> 00:22:23,890
2024?

543
00:22:23,910 --> 00:22:27,010
Like when does, how far back to, is

544
00:22:27,010 --> 00:22:28,030
that retroactive?

545
00:22:28,170 --> 00:22:30,810
I wonder, uh, article I was looking at,

546
00:22:30,890 --> 00:22:32,910
made it sound like it goes back to

547
00:22:32,910 --> 00:22:37,410
last, uh, to 2023 to December or some

548
00:22:37,410 --> 00:22:38,530
of this, but I don't know if that's

549
00:22:38,530 --> 00:22:38,910
accurate.

550
00:22:39,210 --> 00:22:39,690
Yeah.

551
00:22:39,710 --> 00:22:40,830
I don't know if it's accurate either.

552
00:22:40,890 --> 00:22:43,050
I do know it's retroactive, but I'm not

553
00:22:43,050 --> 00:22:44,450
a hundred percent sure on the date.

554
00:22:44,450 --> 00:22:47,550
I read November 23, November 23.

555
00:22:47,810 --> 00:22:47,950
Yeah.

556
00:22:48,030 --> 00:22:49,610
Nailed down what exactly that is.

557
00:22:50,530 --> 00:22:54,650
So, um, anyway, it's a full year plus

558
00:22:54,650 --> 00:22:57,750
that people are, who are affected by this

559
00:22:58,290 --> 00:23:03,490
will recover more benefit that they didn't get

560
00:23:03,490 --> 00:23:04,690
in that period of time.

561
00:23:05,030 --> 00:23:05,170
Right.

562
00:23:05,230 --> 00:23:07,350
And just for a point of reference, the

563
00:23:07,350 --> 00:23:10,730
average increase from the WEP, the windfall elimination

564
00:23:10,730 --> 00:23:15,310
provision is $360 per recipient a month.

565
00:23:17,050 --> 00:23:19,430
And on the government offset pension offset, the

566
00:23:19,430 --> 00:23:25,190
average is $700 increase for, um, 380,000

567
00:23:25,190 --> 00:23:28,890
people who are spouses and the average for

568
00:23:28,890 --> 00:23:30,110
the surviving spouse.

569
00:23:30,290 --> 00:23:33,310
And this 390,000 of them is $1

570
00:23:33,310 --> 00:23:34,410
,190.

571
00:23:36,460 --> 00:23:38,390
Oh, pretty, uh, pretty impactful.

572
00:23:39,050 --> 00:23:39,310
Yeah.

573
00:23:39,310 --> 00:23:41,150
I'll tell you what, this is, um, from

574
00:23:41,150 --> 00:23:42,630
a Kiplinger article.

575
00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:45,610
It says, uh, that the text of the

576
00:23:45,610 --> 00:23:48,890
law indicates that the legislation's effective date will

577
00:23:48,890 --> 00:23:52,770
apply to benefits payable for months after December

578
00:23:52,770 --> 00:23:53,770
2023.

579
00:23:54,090 --> 00:23:56,210
So that'd be the entirety of 2024.

580
00:23:57,190 --> 00:23:57,290
Right.

581
00:23:57,930 --> 00:23:59,690
So by the time they get this done

582
00:23:59,690 --> 00:24:00,990
in a few months, you know, people could

583
00:24:00,990 --> 00:24:03,570
be looking at maybe a year and a

584
00:24:03,570 --> 00:24:04,070
few months.

585
00:24:04,070 --> 00:24:07,290
So it's, uh, if you're at the top

586
00:24:07,290 --> 00:24:10,630
of that amount, you know, $1,100 between

587
00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:16,010
360 and $1,190 could be up to

588
00:24:16,010 --> 00:24:17,610
10,000, maybe a little bit more.

589
00:24:18,850 --> 00:24:23,110
Well, um, so what's the financial planning, uh,

590
00:24:23,110 --> 00:24:23,930
ramifications?

591
00:24:24,210 --> 00:24:24,930
What should we be?

592
00:24:25,130 --> 00:24:27,810
Uh, I think the, the bottom line for

593
00:24:27,810 --> 00:24:30,750
listeners is time to revisit your financial plan

594
00:24:30,750 --> 00:24:31,350
a little bit.

595
00:24:31,350 --> 00:24:33,870
If you think you might be affected by

596
00:24:33,870 --> 00:24:38,490
this, um, let's, let's get into the details

597
00:24:38,490 --> 00:24:40,450
and, uh, if you're coming into a little

598
00:24:40,450 --> 00:24:42,090
bit of money, maybe that's a good opportunity

599
00:24:42,090 --> 00:24:44,010
to think about what should you be doing

600
00:24:44,010 --> 00:24:44,410
with that?

601
00:24:44,470 --> 00:24:46,530
Is that part of your, your reserve, your

602
00:24:46,530 --> 00:24:47,370
liquidity reserve?

603
00:24:47,430 --> 00:24:49,250
Is it part of, uh, you're going to

604
00:24:49,250 --> 00:24:50,490
fund your, your goals?

605
00:24:51,010 --> 00:24:53,310
Uh, what's going to happen with that when

606
00:24:53,310 --> 00:24:55,330
it comes to that change in cashflow?

607
00:24:55,610 --> 00:24:58,730
Does that have a material consequence on, uh,

608
00:24:58,730 --> 00:25:02,230
your financial profile, your financial picture?

609
00:25:02,770 --> 00:25:02,950
I don't know.

610
00:25:02,970 --> 00:25:04,130
Anything you want to add to that, Jeff?

611
00:25:04,770 --> 00:25:06,550
No, I agree a hundred percent.

612
00:25:06,810 --> 00:25:08,650
And it's a good time to re re

613
00:25:08,650 --> 00:25:12,050
revisit your financial plan and update the modeling

614
00:25:12,050 --> 00:25:15,010
of it, update your income, your monthly income.

615
00:25:15,150 --> 00:25:16,370
It may, uh, it's going to make it

616
00:25:16,370 --> 00:25:17,770
look better, whatever it is.

617
00:25:18,410 --> 00:25:21,170
I would just add, um, as we go

618
00:25:21,170 --> 00:25:25,230
to wrap up momentarily, if, uh, you are

619
00:25:25,230 --> 00:25:28,290
someone who, uh, is a municipal employee or

620
00:25:28,290 --> 00:25:31,070
someone who has, uh, is affected by this,

621
00:25:31,610 --> 00:25:34,810
um, Jeff has a lot of expertise on

622
00:25:34,810 --> 00:25:37,830
these issues on understanding the, uh, the way

623
00:25:37,830 --> 00:25:39,570
the public pensions work.

624
00:25:40,130 --> 00:25:41,930
And so if you, um, are kind of

625
00:25:41,930 --> 00:25:43,950
facing some of the decisions you might need

626
00:25:43,950 --> 00:25:46,390
to deal with, uh, we would encourage you

627
00:25:46,390 --> 00:25:47,210
to reach out.

628
00:25:47,350 --> 00:25:49,150
Um, we can, uh, we've got some great

629
00:25:49,150 --> 00:25:52,170
resources here as a team and Jeff, uh,

630
00:25:52,170 --> 00:25:53,650
in his wealth of knowledge can be a

631
00:25:53,650 --> 00:25:54,510
great tool as well.

632
00:25:54,510 --> 00:25:56,610
I think we're going to do some episodes

633
00:25:56,610 --> 00:26:00,970
specifically geared toward, uh, those, uh, listeners who

634
00:26:00,970 --> 00:26:03,290
might be in benefit from that in the

635
00:26:03,290 --> 00:26:03,590
future.

636
00:26:03,870 --> 00:26:07,450
So, uh, if you're a public employee, uh,

637
00:26:07,450 --> 00:26:09,410
stay tuned and let us know if we

638
00:26:09,410 --> 00:26:11,310
can be a resource to you as well.

639
00:26:11,950 --> 00:26:14,710
Um, with that, uh, anything else to add?

640
00:26:14,730 --> 00:26:15,850
Should we call it a day?

641
00:26:16,650 --> 00:26:17,730
Let's call it a day.

642
00:26:17,810 --> 00:26:19,450
It's good news for most of us out

643
00:26:19,450 --> 00:26:19,710
there.

644
00:26:19,990 --> 00:26:20,390
Excellent.

645
00:26:20,530 --> 00:26:20,730
All right.

646
00:26:20,730 --> 00:26:22,090
Well, thanks for listening, everybody.

647
00:26:22,090 --> 00:26:24,530
Until next time, keep striving for something more.

648
00:26:25,590 --> 00:26:27,930
Thank you for listening to something more with

649
00:26:27,930 --> 00:26:28,650
Chris Boyd.

650
00:26:28,930 --> 00:26:31,090
Call us for help, whether it's for financial

651
00:26:31,090 --> 00:26:35,010
planning or portfolio management, insurance concerns, or those

652
00:26:35,010 --> 00:26:37,050
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653
00:26:37,050 --> 00:26:38,170
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654
00:26:38,490 --> 00:26:40,650
Whatever's on your mind, visit us at something

655
00:26:40,650 --> 00:26:43,670
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656
00:26:43,670 --> 00:26:48,650
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657
00:26:48,650 --> 00:26:52,530
Or send us your questions to amr-info

658
00:26:52,530 --> 00:26:54,470
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659
00:26:54,650 --> 00:26:56,590
You're listening to something more with Chris Boyd,

660
00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:59,210
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661
00:26:59,210 --> 00:27:01,330
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662
00:27:01,330 --> 00:27:03,910
individual basis to clients only proper advice depends

663
00:27:03,910 --> 00:27:05,690
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664
00:27:05,690 --> 00:27:06,250
circumstances.

665
00:27:06,530 --> 00:27:08,330
The information given on this program is general

666
00:27:08,330 --> 00:27:10,350
financial comments and cannot be relied upon as

667
00:27:10,350 --> 00:27:11,970
pertaining to your specific situation.

668
00:27:12,150 --> 00:27:14,110
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669
00:27:14,110 --> 00:27:16,130
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670
00:27:16,130 --> 00:27:17,250
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671
00:27:17,250 --> 00:27:19,590
Listeners should consult their own financial advisors or

672
00:27:19,590 --> 00:27:21,710
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673
00:27:21,710 --> 00:27:22,470
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