Will your wishes be followed

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Welcome to something more with Chris Boyd.

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Chris Boyd is a certified financial planner, practitioner,

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and senior vice president, financial advisor at wealth

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enhancement group.

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One of the nation's largest registered investment advisors.

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We call it something more because we'd like

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to talk not only about those important dollar

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and cents issues, but also the quality of

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life issues that make the money matters matter.

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Here he is your fulfillment facilitator, your partner

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in prosperity, advising clients on Cape Cod and

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across the country.

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Here's your host, Jay Christopher Boyd.

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Welcome to the program.

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Something more with Chris Boyd.

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I'm here with Jeff Perry and Russ Ball.

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We are of the AMR team at wealth

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enhancement group and glad to have you with

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us today.

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Our subject is a living will.

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I think we're going to talk about for

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the most part.

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And, um, I came across an article, um,

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that was, uh, from the wall street journal

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called, she signed a living will her sister

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didn't honor it.

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And I just thought, uh, this is a

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topic that's kind of, uh, of interest.

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And it prompted me as we were thinking

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about talking about it.

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Um, have you guys started watching the pit?

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Um, uh, HBO max, uh, television show, Noah

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Wiley.

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No, he's the, uh, ER guy.

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Yeah.

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He was on ER.

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They actually sued him.

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Uh, the, uh, state of Michael Crichton or

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something for, uh, making a rip off of

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ER apparently really.

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Yeah.

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So it's a pit, a rip off of

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ER.

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Kind of, um, it's like, it's a medical,

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it's a medical trauma and it takes place

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in an emergency room.

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And so maybe it's a start, right?

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Yeah.

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But anyway, um, I I'm enjoying it.

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And, um, one of the episodes that, uh,

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we've seen, they, they, they only drop them

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once a week.

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So, um, this, one of these episodes had

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a similar story to this notion where.

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Um, I don't want to ruin it for

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anybody, but so, you know, I don't know

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if you're, if you haven't watched it, uh,

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just spoiler alert, I guess, you know, we're

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talking about an episode.

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So anyway, um, the, there was a gentleman,

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an older, uh, father, elderly father who came

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in and, uh, had clear instructions as to

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what he wanted, but the kids were the,

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um, healthcare proxy agent and, um, they got

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to choose what, what would be the case.

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And so the, the drama unfolds with, you

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know, the medical advice versus, you know, what

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can they do?

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What, what should they do?

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Um, some challenging discussions, you know, about when

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do you let go?

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You know, that kind of thing.

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Should we, uh, inform our listeners?

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We don't know about these terms, what these

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things we're talking about.

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Yep.

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So we're talking about a state planning documents,

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right?

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Yeah.

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So documents you prepare as you're thinking about

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end of your life and your legacy and

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passing on, and I think most people have

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heard of a will that's who gets your

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stuff, right?

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Basically what areas you want to get, what

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part of your financial assets, your real estate,

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your personal property.

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That's kind of the basic thing that most

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people know.

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Um, some people need a trust, not going

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to get into that for this purpose, but

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that also can define who gets your stuff,

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who handles your finance, your affairs, if you're

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not able to, that's another document that does

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some of that as well, right?

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Jeff.

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Yeah.

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There's a, well, there's a power of attorney

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also out there just in case people know

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these terms, um, which would allow someone to

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manage your financial affairs while you're incapacitated before

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you die, a durable power of attorney, if

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you lose your own ability to manage your

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own personal financial affairs, and then there's a

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couple documents having to do with your health

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and decisions.

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One is a healthcare proxy and highly recommended

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that everyone listening, no matter what your age

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is, you have a healthcare proxy.

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It's a directive that you give your authority

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to sounds like it's going to be part

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of our conversation, but to at least one

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person as your healthcare proxy, that person can

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make the healthcare decisions if you are not

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able to make those decisions as defined by

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a medical professional.

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So, you know, you're, you get in a

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car accident.

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You're not, you're unconscious.

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You're in a coma.

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There's choices about your medical care, decisions about

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surgeries, whatever the situation might be.

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Your healthcare proxy is authorized to make those

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decisions for you.

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And so they are an agent, an individual

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who can discern what's the medical prognosis relative

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to what they understand your preferences to be,

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what they've deemed to be appropriate for you.

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Yes, they are.

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As they are an agent, they are supposed

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to be standing in your shoes, making the

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decision for you.

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Um, we'll get into it probably in the

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narrative, but if you appoint to hopefully one

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is in charge and one is the successor,

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meaning Sally's in charge, Joey makes the decision.

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If Sally's not available, if you appoint to

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both having full authority, you're asking for trouble.

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What if they don't agree and then how

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do you deal with that?

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And does that lead you to court anyway?

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Or, you know, that's right.

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You could be defeating what you're trying to

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do.

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Um, a sister document to the healthcare proxy

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is a living will, which is a way

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for you, the person preparing, having the documents

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prepared is to state your wishes on how

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you would like things handled by your healthcare

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proxy or medical professional, when you're not, if

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you were not able to make those decisions

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and sometimes we'll put in there, they don't

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want to be resuscitated.

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They don't want extraordinary efforts made.

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They don't want you to be intubated.

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They don't want whatever it is personal.

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So it is a written directive defining their

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preferences, right?

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Now, why would I have both of these

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Jeff?

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You'd have the living will, in my opinion,

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to direct your health, to give information to

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your healthcare proxy that is definitive, like if

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you just appoint a healthcare proxy and don't,

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some people appoint a healthcare proxy and don't

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even tell the person they're appointing that they're

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a healthcare proxy, that's not the way to

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do it either.

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But if you appoint your healthcare proxy, you

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should have a conversation with them about why

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they're the healthcare proxy.

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Some of the, if you have unique circumstances,

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share it with them and you can enshrine

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those items, those wishes, those desires in a

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living will that help your healthcare proxy make

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the decisions that you would have made if

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you were able to make them yourself.

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Yeah.

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And it's important to note that not all

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jurisdictions approach this the same way.

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Correct.

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Uh, some states, uh, advocate the agency approach,

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the having a healthcare proxy, a decider, a

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decision maker on your behalf, and some states,

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uh, prefer a written directive as the preferred

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approach.

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So, um, if I recall, um, I think

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I've heard my brother mentioned this at, uh,

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um, at a seminar, for example, I think

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Connecticut prefers the, uh, living will.

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Whereas Massachusetts prefers the healthcare proxy.

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So you might want both also, right?

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Because what if you're not in the right

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jurisdiction, right?

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I think you want both for sure.

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And even if you're in a jurisdiction that

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favors one or the other, think about, think

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about putting that burden.

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Maybe that's not the right word for every,

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everyone, but think about putting that decision on

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a loved one to make those decisions for

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you, if you're not able to, what a

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tremendous benefit it is.

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If in your living will, you have been

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very specific, like do not resuscitate, do not,

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whatever it is, or you, or it could

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be, I'm thinking I'm showing a bias here,

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or it could be the opposite.

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Use every measure, use all resources, right.

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You know, I had a friend whose mom

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was, um, very ill.

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She, um, had sepsis at the time and

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was, you know, very close to dying.

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And, um, he had to choose, uh, which

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approach, uh, you know, should we give her

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like a, a peaceful passing, you know, try

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to just make her comfortable.

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Or, um, should they, you know, treat her

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with, um, all measures available.

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And he said in his case, he was

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like, Hey, when you're dead, it's forever, you

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know, let's pull out all the stops, you

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know, and, uh, in her case, we did,

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uh, recover as it turned out.

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Um, but you know, I think in, there

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was also some, um, you know, cognitive issues

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from, um, anesthesias and things like that, you

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know, that, that had some lasting impact.

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The, the point being though, different people are,

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have different preferences and different priorities.

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You know, how, how do you deal with

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that?

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At what stage?

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That's why I call the living well, the

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sister agreement of the healthcare proxy, because I

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think in the perfect world, you give someone

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your healthcare proxy, you tell them about it.

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You tell them why they, why you selected

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that person, the reasons and share with them

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the document and share with them the document

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of your living will and let them read

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it and maybe discuss it, not maybe discuss

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it if you're able to.

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And so the, so when it's, if it's

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time for that healthcare proxy to have to

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make the decision, you're making it a lot

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clearer and a lot easier for them to

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make that difficult decision, whichever way it goes.

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I think that's true.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I think as the, the show kind of

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pointed out, it's, um, much more difficult when

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you get to that point and that decision

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has to be made by the, in this

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example, it was the children.

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It's like, um, the adult children and they

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were saying, well, you know, would, would dad

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really want to give up on what would

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he want us to give up on him?

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Yeah.

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And it's like, oh man, these are, these

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are challenging times to make really crucial life

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and death decisions.

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Emotion filled, you know, driven kind of considerations

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on the one hand, there was the perception

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that it was clear he wouldn't want this,

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uh, um, intubation in this case on the

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00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,440
show, and then on the other hand, you

270
00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:23,160
know, there's that kind of, well, he, would

271
00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:24,460
he want us to give up on him

272
00:11:24,460 --> 00:11:30,140
this, you know, emotion, uh, packed, uh, positioning

273
00:11:30,140 --> 00:11:32,340
of the, of the dilemma, you know?

274
00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:36,780
Um, so yeah, I think, uh, that points

275
00:11:36,780 --> 00:11:40,360
to the real challenge of trying to identify,

276
00:11:41,100 --> 00:11:43,960
uh, who's the right person to be your

277
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:45,940
agent, your healthcare proxy.

278
00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,840
And will they know your wishes?

279
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,900
Have you clear made it clear to what

280
00:11:52,900 --> 00:11:57,860
extent you'd want to, uh, pursue, uh, extraordinary

281
00:11:57,860 --> 00:12:00,840
measures, um, in the event of, you know,

282
00:12:00,900 --> 00:12:03,540
your, your inability to make your own healthcare

283
00:12:03,540 --> 00:12:06,940
decisions at what stage of life, uh, do

284
00:12:06,940 --> 00:12:09,820
you go from saying, you know, pull out

285
00:12:09,820 --> 00:12:13,360
all the stops to, um, you know, well,

286
00:12:13,380 --> 00:12:15,520
I've led a full life, you know, I,

287
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:16,740
I wouldn't want to.

288
00:12:17,460 --> 00:12:20,280
Um, you know, have X, Y, or Z,

289
00:12:20,460 --> 00:12:23,100
you know, these decisions are not stagnant.

290
00:12:23,100 --> 00:12:25,100
If you're a 35 year old mother of

291
00:12:25,100 --> 00:12:28,780
four, you'll probably have a different view of

292
00:12:28,780 --> 00:12:31,960
that if you're a 95 year old widow

293
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:33,640
and living in assisted living.

294
00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:34,760
Yeah.

295
00:12:34,940 --> 00:12:36,440
That's a great analogy.

296
00:12:36,620 --> 00:12:38,980
Just your, your PR, your perspective on these

297
00:12:38,980 --> 00:12:40,900
things may be different at different moments in

298
00:12:40,900 --> 00:12:41,300
time.

299
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,940
Um, and the, the extent of life you've

300
00:12:44,940 --> 00:12:47,420
lived, you know, one thing that I've seen,

301
00:12:47,420 --> 00:12:51,260
um, which I think is worth noting is

302
00:12:51,260 --> 00:12:53,840
when you're preparing your estate documents, you might

303
00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:55,660
be thinking about who am I going to

304
00:12:55,660 --> 00:12:58,440
appoint to take care of these things, um,

305
00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:00,180
whether it be a will power of attorney,

306
00:13:00,340 --> 00:13:01,180
a healthcare proxy.

307
00:13:01,780 --> 00:13:04,160
And sometimes people just think of that one

308
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,080
person, like we'll take care of this.

309
00:13:06,580 --> 00:13:09,860
It's prudent to, to consider that maybe one

310
00:13:09,860 --> 00:13:13,120
person's great to handle the financial stuff, but

311
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,220
one person's great to organize in a state.

312
00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:18,840
But that person may not be the right

313
00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:20,560
person for the healthcare proxy.

314
00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:22,340
I think that's an excellent point.

315
00:13:22,500 --> 00:13:24,320
I agree with you completely that we see

316
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,300
that, uh, often that it's like, Oh, the

317
00:13:26,300 --> 00:13:27,700
oldest, right.

318
00:13:27,860 --> 00:13:29,500
You know, uh, and it's not, it might

319
00:13:29,500 --> 00:13:31,240
not be the right one, you know, and,

320
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,640
or, or the nearest closest, someone who's nearby.

321
00:13:35,940 --> 00:13:39,000
Um, and at times I think, you know,

322
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,040
you can see how there'd be an element

323
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:46,120
of, um, practicality that, Oh, the person who

324
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,200
is most involved in my life because of

325
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:53,240
proximity should be the one who'd be best

326
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:57,100
able to manage my bill paying or, you

327
00:13:57,100 --> 00:14:00,380
know, financial affairs because they are here.

328
00:14:00,380 --> 00:14:00,940
Right.

329
00:14:01,380 --> 00:14:04,340
And there's some truth in that probably on

330
00:14:04,340 --> 00:14:07,280
the other hand, um, different people have different

331
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:11,820
skillsets and different, um, deficits, let's say as

332
00:14:11,820 --> 00:14:12,040
well.

333
00:14:12,060 --> 00:14:12,380
Right.

334
00:14:12,860 --> 00:14:13,100
That's right.

335
00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:16,360
Um, so you have to be really deliberate

336
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:17,100
about that.

337
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:21,080
There's also the risk, uh, sometimes that the,

338
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,840
uh, the siblings who are not present will

339
00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,280
perceive, uh, undue influence or something like that

340
00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:29,880
sometimes.

341
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,820
Uh, but, uh, are they stepping up even

342
00:14:33,820 --> 00:14:34,840
though they're not nearby?

343
00:14:34,940 --> 00:14:38,660
These, these are really challenging, challenging issues too.

344
00:14:38,940 --> 00:14:40,280
It can be, it can be.

345
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,320
And I know you've seen it, Chris, um,

346
00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:50,000
in your various experiences is death and legacy

347
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,860
and healthcare decisions can be a point of

348
00:14:52,860 --> 00:14:54,080
strife in families.

349
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:54,840
Yeah.

350
00:14:55,020 --> 00:14:57,220
And so having these documents and having these

351
00:14:57,220 --> 00:15:01,480
conversations about these documents while you're alive can

352
00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,140
really go a long way to avoiding those,

353
00:15:04,260 --> 00:15:05,260
that family strife.

354
00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:05,740
Yeah.

355
00:15:05,740 --> 00:15:07,660
I think you're, you, you're right.

356
00:15:07,780 --> 00:15:10,440
An ounce of prevention, um, worth a pound

357
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:14,080
of cure in that scenario that elaborating on

358
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:17,000
why, just to say I've made this decision

359
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,660
and here's why sometimes can really be valuable

360
00:15:20,660 --> 00:15:25,180
to particularly the siblings who aren't the person

361
00:15:25,180 --> 00:15:27,880
that you've chosen for one thing or another.

362
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,140
Um, it can, it can add a lot

363
00:15:30,140 --> 00:15:30,620
of value.

364
00:15:30,620 --> 00:15:32,420
So they know that you did give it

365
00:15:32,420 --> 00:15:36,620
consideration and maybe there's a great reason why

366
00:15:36,620 --> 00:15:38,560
you said, I don't want to place this

367
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:40,560
burden on you or, or whatever it might

368
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,380
be, you know, um, not enough going on

369
00:15:43,380 --> 00:15:45,140
with what's going on in your family or

370
00:15:45,140 --> 00:15:47,340
whatever, you know, that kind of value judgment

371
00:15:47,340 --> 00:15:48,240
about your ability.

372
00:15:48,340 --> 00:15:49,720
It's another reason.

373
00:15:50,180 --> 00:15:50,460
Yeah.

374
00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:51,920
I didn't make a mistake too.

375
00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,940
Sometimes if there's not that communication, sometimes a

376
00:15:55,940 --> 00:15:58,240
child, it's as a group of children may

377
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,020
think that there was a mistake or undue

378
00:16:00,020 --> 00:16:01,460
influence, right?

379
00:16:01,740 --> 00:16:03,940
They made that decision because I've lived far

380
00:16:03,940 --> 00:16:07,340
away or, you know, whatever the, you know,

381
00:16:07,540 --> 00:16:08,900
whatever the situation might be.

382
00:16:08,900 --> 00:16:10,220
I agree with your point though.

383
00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,780
Um, it's probably a good idea not to

384
00:16:13,780 --> 00:16:17,480
have one person fill all of those roles

385
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:21,560
many times that, um, you can have, um,

386
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,620
you know, someone who's going to be, um,

387
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,380
handling the affairs of the state.

388
00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:30,120
They don't call it executor anymore.

389
00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:32,440
I forget what it's called now, but personal

390
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:33,100
representative.

391
00:16:33,740 --> 00:16:33,980
Thank you.

392
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,280
Um, you know, that, that could be one

393
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,520
person, but the healthcare proxy could be someone

394
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:39,940
else.

395
00:16:40,260 --> 00:16:43,180
And, uh, when it comes to, uh, a

396
00:16:43,180 --> 00:16:45,500
trustee, you know, you could have, uh, more

397
00:16:45,500 --> 00:16:47,180
than one, you could have, you know, it

398
00:16:47,180 --> 00:16:48,680
could be different reasons to have one.

399
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:50,160
It doesn't have to be a family member

400
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:50,480
either.

401
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:51,200
Yeah.

402
00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:51,880
Yeah.

403
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:53,900
You know, sometimes it's, it's better.

404
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,000
Not if you have, if you have the

405
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,640
fear as the grantor that this could cause

406
00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,720
strife and that could be disagreement, maybe a

407
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,359
professional trustee, if that's not the first choice

408
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,200
for many people, but maybe a professional trustee,

409
00:17:10,220 --> 00:17:13,660
or maybe someone who's not in the beneficiary

410
00:17:13,660 --> 00:17:14,040
line.

411
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,099
So there's no motive other than fulfilling the

412
00:17:17,099 --> 00:17:18,260
wishes of the grantor.

413
00:17:18,260 --> 00:17:21,540
And just because someone has this role, it

414
00:17:21,540 --> 00:17:25,520
can create, um, tension as you mentioned earlier.

415
00:17:26,060 --> 00:17:27,900
Uh, and that can be a reason to

416
00:17:27,900 --> 00:17:32,200
think about, um, some outsourced resource for some

417
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:33,880
of these things, because let's face it when,

418
00:17:34,020 --> 00:17:39,400
um, someone passes a lot of emotional baggage

419
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,120
bubbles up and, um, you know, you always

420
00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:45,680
were, you, I never, you know, this kind

421
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,180
of stuff kind of pops up a little

422
00:17:48,180 --> 00:17:48,440
bit.

423
00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,020
And, um, when it comes to, uh, everyone

424
00:17:53,020 --> 00:17:56,660
in the family may have different financial capabilities,

425
00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:01,100
different, uh, uh, family dynamics of what's going

426
00:18:01,100 --> 00:18:03,080
on with their, you know, their kids and

427
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:04,480
their, their financial life.

428
00:18:04,700 --> 00:18:09,000
And so, um, you know, I think sometimes

429
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,200
you, you want elements of transparency.

430
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,140
Uh, on the other hand, there needs to

431
00:18:13,140 --> 00:18:16,420
be clarity of who's in charge and who

432
00:18:16,420 --> 00:18:19,840
gets, who has the decision making capability.

433
00:18:21,060 --> 00:18:25,260
Um, you can find that, uh, heirs want

434
00:18:25,260 --> 00:18:27,120
everything to be resolved instantaneously.

435
00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:29,400
Um, but that's just not the way it

436
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:29,780
works.

437
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,020
Unfortunately, it takes time to go through a

438
00:18:33,020 --> 00:18:35,800
probate process, or even in the case of

439
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,680
a trust, uh, that can not, you know,

440
00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,920
happen instantaneously where there's a graph, there's a

441
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,680
number of things that need to be accounted

442
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,540
for before, uh, you, you maybe disperse assets

443
00:18:47,540 --> 00:18:49,560
or, you know, make sure we, we have

444
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,460
enough for any tax considerations that might be

445
00:18:52,460 --> 00:18:55,680
an issue and whether it's income taxes or

446
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:57,680
estate taxes or whatever may be.

447
00:18:57,780 --> 00:19:01,420
So yeah, so there have to, there's a

448
00:19:01,420 --> 00:19:04,800
sort of a process and, um, sometimes people

449
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:06,920
can perceive, oh, they're dragging their feet and,

450
00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:10,500
you know, there's some, you know, discontent, you

451
00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:11,140
know what I mean?

452
00:19:11,420 --> 00:19:15,100
So, um, you know, I guess it's, it's

453
00:19:15,100 --> 00:19:17,380
easier from, you know, if you're not the

454
00:19:17,380 --> 00:19:20,080
person, it's easier to be critical, right?

455
00:19:20,380 --> 00:19:22,100
Uh, whereas the person who has all the

456
00:19:22,100 --> 00:19:25,380
responsibility has to follow these kind of various

457
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,780
considerations and rules and process of the whole

458
00:19:28,780 --> 00:19:29,060
thing.

459
00:19:29,060 --> 00:19:31,640
So Russ, it sounds like you've watched the

460
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:33,280
pit or watching.

461
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,000
Yeah, I am watching the pit.

462
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:35,340
Yes.

463
00:19:35,540 --> 00:19:39,360
Is there two healthcare agents in this scenario?

464
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:40,460
Yes.

465
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:40,840
Yeah.

466
00:19:40,900 --> 00:19:43,900
So it's both, both two siblings and the

467
00:19:43,900 --> 00:19:46,220
brother seems to know better, right?

468
00:19:46,380 --> 00:19:46,560
Yeah.

469
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,660
The brother, the brother, uh, no, he thinks,

470
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,940
no, no, he seems to know what the

471
00:19:51,940 --> 00:19:56,420
father really wanted, but he's acquiescing to the,

472
00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:57,900
to the sisters.

473
00:19:59,320 --> 00:19:59,740
Emotions.

474
00:20:00,180 --> 00:20:00,360
Yeah.

475
00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:02,840
Is there a living, is there a living

476
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,380
will in the discussion or just not in

477
00:20:05,380 --> 00:20:06,100
this discussion?

478
00:20:06,380 --> 00:20:06,540
Yeah.

479
00:20:06,820 --> 00:20:06,980
Okay.

480
00:20:07,660 --> 00:20:10,040
Was there, oh, there was a direct advance

481
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:10,640
directive.

482
00:20:11,020 --> 00:20:11,440
Yeah.

483
00:20:11,700 --> 00:20:13,880
It'd be a living will as we commonly

484
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:14,840
call it in Massachusetts.

485
00:20:15,220 --> 00:20:15,380
Yeah.

486
00:20:15,740 --> 00:20:18,400
The doctor was, you know, encouraging them to,

487
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,800
you know, is that really his wish or

488
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:22,660
what's his, what's, what are his actual desires?

489
00:20:22,660 --> 00:20:24,320
What a tough spot for doctors too.

490
00:20:24,420 --> 00:20:25,460
I mean, you know, we're just thinking about

491
00:20:25,460 --> 00:20:27,440
the family members, but doctors.

492
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,960
Well, they threatened the lawsuit, right?

493
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,860
They were like, well, the, um, the kids

494
00:20:34,860 --> 00:20:36,860
threatened to sue the hospital if they didn't

495
00:20:36,860 --> 00:20:39,700
honor the daughter in this case, threatened to

496
00:20:39,700 --> 00:20:42,080
sue the hospital, the healthcare proxy honor her

497
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:42,400
wishes.

498
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:42,840
Right.

499
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:43,320
Yeah.

500
00:20:43,460 --> 00:20:43,700
Yeah.

501
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:44,960
So they were like, okay.

502
00:20:45,340 --> 00:20:48,500
Sounds like a law school, uh, case study.

503
00:20:48,740 --> 00:20:49,220
Yeah.

504
00:20:49,460 --> 00:20:50,400
On this kind of thing.

505
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:50,640
Right.

506
00:20:50,820 --> 00:20:53,500
It's like, it's, it's a good, you know,

507
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,160
it's entertaining of course.

508
00:20:55,160 --> 00:21:00,440
And you know, it's not you in the

509
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,020
sense that it's, you know, you really can

510
00:21:02,020 --> 00:21:03,700
relate to these characters.

511
00:21:03,980 --> 00:21:04,080
Right.

512
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:04,700
That's what I mean.

513
00:21:04,740 --> 00:21:08,600
You know, um, but at the same time,

514
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,040
it is a good thought exercise.

515
00:21:10,260 --> 00:21:13,340
Can be informative to your own situation and

516
00:21:13,340 --> 00:21:15,940
what might happen if you had to pass.

517
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:16,580
Right.

518
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:17,400
Right.

519
00:21:17,900 --> 00:21:19,620
And this is something we talk about.

520
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,340
I am going to watch the show.

521
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,400
We do have max and sounds like something

522
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:24,400
that we would enjoy.

523
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,540
But this is something, when we talk about

524
00:21:27,540 --> 00:21:30,860
financial planning and things that ways that we

525
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,980
assist our clients, this is something we talk

526
00:21:33,980 --> 00:21:36,640
about initially and meaning estate planning.

527
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,980
And in every annual review that we do

528
00:21:39,980 --> 00:21:41,760
with them, like life changes, right?

529
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,180
Anything change in your life?

530
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,400
Is your estate planning settled?

531
00:21:47,660 --> 00:21:50,900
And, you know, this also brings up the

532
00:21:50,900 --> 00:21:52,500
subject of my, I know I'm going on

533
00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:55,000
tangents, which you know better.

534
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:55,740
You hired me.

535
00:21:56,900 --> 00:22:00,820
You know, this goes into a subject that

536
00:22:00,820 --> 00:22:02,900
we'll probably be talking about in other episodes.

537
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,300
But should there be a family meeting?

538
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:06,480
Yeah.

539
00:22:06,900 --> 00:22:07,280
Yeah.

540
00:22:07,580 --> 00:22:07,840
Right.

541
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,620
I think that's a good point.

542
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:11,200
It does.

543
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,120
It does lead to that kind of thing.

544
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,680
How much if with a little bit of.

545
00:22:20,220 --> 00:22:23,080
Advanced conversation, can some of these things be

546
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,820
put out there and and have greater sense

547
00:22:26,820 --> 00:22:27,920
of clarity around it?

548
00:22:28,260 --> 00:22:28,400
Yeah.

549
00:22:28,420 --> 00:22:31,100
And that doesn't mean that you're disclosing as

550
00:22:31,100 --> 00:22:33,440
the as in this case, the father, if

551
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,000
he was to if he did have a

552
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,660
family meeting, the father in the pit, which

553
00:22:37,660 --> 00:22:38,180
I haven't seen.

554
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:38,440
Yeah.

555
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,960
Well, and the challenge in this particular case

556
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:42,900
was he would have had to have the

557
00:22:42,900 --> 00:22:44,800
meeting five years ago, you know, I mean,

558
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:45,280
or whatever.

559
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,280
Because he was starting to have issues of

560
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:53,900
dementia and, you know, moments of clarity, but

561
00:22:53,900 --> 00:22:56,380
not always, you know, that kind of thing.

562
00:22:56,740 --> 00:22:58,420
Which makes it even more complicated, right?

563
00:22:58,740 --> 00:22:59,660
Yes, exactly.

564
00:23:00,140 --> 00:23:02,320
Family meeting could be when you prepare your

565
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,780
estate planning documents as you as you're getting

566
00:23:05,780 --> 00:23:08,100
older and you're like thinking about your legacy.

567
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,800
And, you know, if it's more it's growing

568
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,000
more possible each year that these documents might

569
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:15,400
be needed or it could be in the

570
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,740
context with your financial advisor as well or

571
00:23:19,740 --> 00:23:20,120
both.

572
00:23:20,740 --> 00:23:20,840
Yeah.

573
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:21,520
Yeah.

574
00:23:21,580 --> 00:23:25,460
I mean, it's funny you mentioned before that.

575
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,600
You know, people will have the occasion on

576
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,640
another, I think, episode where we talked about

577
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,400
the idea that there are times when people

578
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,140
will be just like, oh, no way, no

579
00:23:35,140 --> 00:23:36,680
how I'm not going to have long term

580
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:37,020
care.

581
00:23:37,340 --> 00:23:37,540
Right.

582
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,140
You know, and we have these kind of

583
00:23:41,140 --> 00:23:44,420
conversations with people periodically thinking about how would

584
00:23:44,420 --> 00:23:46,060
you want things to be handled?

585
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:55,220
And sometimes they're, you know, thoughtful, deliberate, elaborated

586
00:23:55,220 --> 00:23:55,540
on.

587
00:23:56,140 --> 00:23:58,360
But other times it's kind of impulsive.

588
00:23:59,260 --> 00:23:59,360
Right.

589
00:24:00,940 --> 00:24:03,400
Flippant a little, you know, like that try

590
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,100
to make light of it, you know, like

591
00:24:05,100 --> 00:24:06,680
they don't want to don't want to really

592
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,260
get into the particulars.

593
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,580
And yeah, dismissive in a sense.

594
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,020
But it's I think it's challenging.

595
00:24:15,140 --> 00:24:15,320
Go ahead.

596
00:24:15,380 --> 00:24:15,500
Yeah.

597
00:24:15,660 --> 00:24:15,800
Yeah.

598
00:24:15,860 --> 00:24:19,620
I think in our field and, you know,

599
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,360
we think of this as a very objective

600
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:21,720
thing.

601
00:24:21,820 --> 00:24:23,600
We think the importance of planning and having

602
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:24,320
a plan in place.

603
00:24:25,300 --> 00:24:26,700
But, you know, for a lot of people

604
00:24:26,700 --> 00:24:30,080
having these conversations, even thinking about, like, big

605
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:31,920
picture things like estate planning, who's going to

606
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,540
take care of my needs if I'm incapacitated?

607
00:24:34,660 --> 00:24:37,260
Like, those are very challenging things to consider,

608
00:24:37,620 --> 00:24:39,840
let alone talk about, especially to family members.

609
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,260
Sometimes, you know, even kids don't want to

610
00:24:42,260 --> 00:24:42,860
hear it from their parents.

611
00:24:42,940 --> 00:24:44,860
Oh, no, let's not let's not go there

612
00:24:44,860 --> 00:24:45,960
like la la la la.

613
00:24:46,060 --> 00:24:46,900
Yeah, exactly.

614
00:24:47,140 --> 00:24:48,940
So whether it be the parents or the

615
00:24:48,940 --> 00:24:51,480
kids or whatever the situation may be, those

616
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:52,340
are challenging.

617
00:24:52,500 --> 00:24:54,240
They think sometimes don't talk that way.

618
00:24:54,500 --> 00:24:56,020
Like, oh, you know, don't talk that way.

619
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:57,120
You're going to be around, you know, that

620
00:24:57,120 --> 00:24:57,560
kind of thing.

621
00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,700
But I think that's a good point, Russ.

622
00:24:59,860 --> 00:25:01,760
All these things that we brought up in

623
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:03,680
this in this episode are like, these are

624
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,720
the reasons why it's important to consider it,

625
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,200
even though it's very difficult, you know, and

626
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:09,900
I think we're you know, we want to

627
00:25:09,900 --> 00:25:10,580
appreciate that.

628
00:25:10,620 --> 00:25:12,360
But it's it's a difficult thing to discuss.

629
00:25:12,860 --> 00:25:15,880
But it's crucially important to to talk about

630
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:17,880
it now while like we still can while

631
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,080
we don't have to make those decisions.

632
00:25:19,540 --> 00:25:20,840
You know, yeah, you can talk about it

633
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,120
in a little bit of an abstract way,

634
00:25:23,140 --> 00:25:24,860
even though we know there's an element of

635
00:25:24,860 --> 00:25:27,540
this that might be relevant to, you know,

636
00:25:27,540 --> 00:25:29,840
we've had that occasion where we talk with

637
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,200
clients about their health care because we know

638
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:33,220
there's an issue.

639
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,320
Yeah, and it's hard to talk about that

640
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,260
or or when someone knows their terminal or

641
00:25:39,260 --> 00:25:42,140
something, it's it's very challenging to have that

642
00:25:42,140 --> 00:25:42,860
conversation.

643
00:25:43,460 --> 00:25:45,660
But it's really important to sort of have

644
00:25:45,660 --> 00:25:48,120
the opportunity to say, OK, so how will

645
00:25:48,120 --> 00:25:48,720
this work?

646
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,940
What will happen and get that benefit of

647
00:25:52,940 --> 00:25:55,580
that insight and what their wishes might be

648
00:25:55,580 --> 00:25:58,880
and and and some of the planning they've

649
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:00,640
done and all the rest of it that,

650
00:26:00,780 --> 00:26:01,740
you know, we we can.

651
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,040
Knowledge is power, right?

652
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,160
And we can we can be more in

653
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,860
control by knowing what the plan is and

654
00:26:11,860 --> 00:26:14,140
how it's going to work and what's intended

655
00:26:14,140 --> 00:26:15,100
and all the rest.

656
00:26:15,220 --> 00:26:16,620
And it's important.

657
00:26:16,740 --> 00:26:17,640
It's not always easy.

658
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,440
When I was practicing law and preparing estates

659
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:26,140
for clients, I would often frame this meeting

660
00:26:26,140 --> 00:26:28,320
with the client as they're about to do

661
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:29,420
this is it's a gift.

662
00:26:29,940 --> 00:26:31,820
It really is a gift that you're providing

663
00:26:31,820 --> 00:26:35,480
to your family by by thinking about this,

664
00:26:35,580 --> 00:26:38,580
by preparing documents and by having those conversations

665
00:26:38,580 --> 00:26:41,460
after the documents are prepared with the people

666
00:26:41,460 --> 00:26:42,280
that you select.

667
00:26:43,540 --> 00:26:46,020
It could avoid it's going to make your

668
00:26:46,020 --> 00:26:48,860
transfer your assets easier.

669
00:26:48,940 --> 00:26:51,940
It's going to make your likelihood of six

670
00:26:51,940 --> 00:26:56,620
strife in the family less, and it's going

671
00:26:56,620 --> 00:27:00,600
to improve your legacy that what you're trying

672
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,980
to be remembered for by having a really

673
00:27:03,980 --> 00:27:07,200
comprehensive estate planning in place when you pass.

674
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:09,880
Well, I hope this has been a helpful

675
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,280
conversation for our listeners and some of the

676
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,160
things to be thinking about when it comes

677
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,520
to your planning, the people you involve in

678
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:18,060
your planning.

679
00:27:19,220 --> 00:27:22,140
It's really important to have the right kind

680
00:27:22,140 --> 00:27:24,860
of estate plan and the right kind of

681
00:27:24,860 --> 00:27:27,780
estate planning attorney that's geared toward this.

682
00:27:28,340 --> 00:27:32,060
There are multiple types out there, and I

683
00:27:32,060 --> 00:27:34,780
think to some extent, having that conversation with

684
00:27:34,780 --> 00:27:37,000
your financial planner to start with can help

685
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:37,800
you navigate.

686
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,800
Are you looking for an estate plan that's

687
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,460
geared toward Medicaid planning?

688
00:27:42,740 --> 00:27:44,340
Are you looking for an estate plan?

689
00:27:44,820 --> 00:27:48,180
It's not basically a different approach, one that's

690
00:27:48,180 --> 00:27:51,340
more geared toward you retaining your wealth and

691
00:27:51,340 --> 00:27:53,820
control of it over your lifetime.

692
00:27:53,820 --> 00:27:56,080
But with the right kinds of documents like

693
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:57,580
these, both are valid approaches.

694
00:27:57,700 --> 00:28:02,720
Different circumstances warrant one approach versus another, and

695
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,500
different attorneys are better equipped to deal with

696
00:28:06,500 --> 00:28:07,740
different approaches.

697
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,860
There are lots of attorneys out there that

698
00:28:10,860 --> 00:28:17,360
handle real estate transactions and divorce and litigation

699
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:18,800
or whatever it might be.

700
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,020
There's different areas of expertise.

701
00:28:21,580 --> 00:28:26,380
And estate planning and elder law, these tend

702
00:28:26,380 --> 00:28:29,600
to be the issues that retirees want to

703
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,060
kind of evaluate.

704
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,880
But that focus toward a Medicaid approach versus

705
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,000
use of a revocable trust, a living trust,

706
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:41,740
these are different approaches.

707
00:28:42,180 --> 00:28:45,440
And you may want some conversation around, which

708
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,600
is the right kind of path for me

709
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,420
given my resources?

710
00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:53,240
And that can involve some of these conversations

711
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,320
about control and what would you want to

712
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:57,880
see happen?

713
00:28:58,100 --> 00:28:59,380
How would you want this to play out?

714
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,840
What's a greater value to you when it

715
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:03,720
comes to the way you receive care versus

716
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,460
the way your wealth is retained intergenerationally?

717
00:29:08,260 --> 00:29:11,360
These are not easy choices sometimes.

718
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,160
But get some input on that and find

719
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,220
the right fit for the right kind of

720
00:29:16,220 --> 00:29:16,660
an attorney.

721
00:29:16,660 --> 00:29:19,940
And in any case, if we can be

722
00:29:19,940 --> 00:29:22,280
a resource in any of your planning and

723
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,760
around your portfolio management or when it comes

724
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,420
to these kinds of issues, when it comes

725
00:29:28,420 --> 00:29:31,040
to estate planning, tax planning, insurance, and so

726
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,080
forth, we're happy to be part of that

727
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,260
conversation and help you navigate this.

728
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:38,940
You can reach out to us through our

729
00:29:38,940 --> 00:29:42,360
website, somethingmorewithchrisboyd.com, we'll get you there.

730
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,960
Or you can always give us a call,

731
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,540
866-771-8901.

732
00:29:48,220 --> 00:29:49,840
Thanks, guys, for a good conversation.

733
00:29:50,260 --> 00:29:52,840
Until next time, everybody, keep striving for something

734
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:53,180
more.

735
00:30:14,180 --> 00:30:18,780
866-771-8901 or send us your questions

736
00:30:18,780 --> 00:30:23,160
to amr-info at wealthenhancement.com.

737
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,260
You're listening to Something More with Chris Boyd

738
00:30:25,260 --> 00:30:26,120
Financial Talk Show.

739
00:30:26,260 --> 00:30:28,720
Wealth Enhancement Advisory Services and Jay Christopher Boyd

740
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,040
provide investment advice on an individual basis to

741
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:31,580
clients only.

742
00:30:31,740 --> 00:30:33,720
Proper advice depends on a complete analysis of

743
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:34,920
all facts and circumstances.

744
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,000
The information given on this program is general

745
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,040
financial comments and cannot be relied upon as

746
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,620
pertaining to your specific situation.

747
00:30:40,620 --> 00:30:42,800
Wealth Enhancement Group cannot guarantee that using the

748
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,800
information from this show will generate profits or

749
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:45,920
ensure freedom from loss.

750
00:30:46,140 --> 00:30:48,280
Listeners should consult their own financial advisors or

751
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,380
conduct their own due diligence before making any

752
00:30:50,380 --> 00:30:51,140
financial decisions.